Wolfgang Leibig
Raoul Zardeninks (left) with the previous executive director of motio, Achim Carius.
Editor’s Note: Raoul Zardeninks recently became the executive director of motio, the German reprographics association. In this wide-ranging interview with Ed Avis, managing director of APDSP, he discusses his career, the association, and the state of reprographics in Germany.
Avis: Tell us about your career, and how you ended up at motio.
Zardeninks: I studied electrical engineering in college, and in 1993 I worked as an assistant for a reprographics association event on the Bodensee (Lake Constance). I had known Achim Carius already for many years – at the time he was living in Schlangenbad, where I still live. He was then the leader of the reprographics association, and every two years there was a convention together with Austrian and Swiss colleagues. I helped with that event again in 1995, and in the subsequent events in Berlin in ’97 and ’99. Around that time I also started working a few days a week in the office in Frankfurt. I set up the association’s first computers, which used the old MS DOS, Windows 3.11. Eventually I became a full-time employee, mostly dealing with IT requirements. I also helped start go4copy.net, and with the takeover of the micrographics association. I’ve also been the project manager for various projects, such as the conventions and the renovation of our building in Frankfurt.
A: Do you plan any changes to motio?
Z: I’m adjusting the workflow in the office, because even though Achim is still here, he’s a consultant, so there are only two full-time employees. We have a lot of documents in paper form in the basement that need to be scanned. That is part of improving the workflow. And we’re improving the software.
Regarding our events, we’ve done a lot of meetings via Meetings. It saves a lot of money in travel costs and it saves time, but people can’t be with each other, so at least once a year we’ll hold an in-person meeting.
At our meeting in Wurzburg in September we had only 70 people, and normally we have 100 or 110. In 2021, our meeting happened during the low-point in Covid infections, and the attendees and exhibitors were hungry to see each other after two years apart, so that meeting went well. Everyone was happy to see each other. We were thinking it would be similar in Wurzburg, but it wasn’t. More people were still worried about Covid, and a few were sick and had to cancel. And in Germany, the Ukraine War affects things, too. There’s not so much fear about the war itself, but the prices of everything have exploded, not just energy, but also the supermarket, and for our members, paper. Everything is going up so quickly. Every two weeks we’re getting another paper price increase. And to attend our event, for two people, counting the hotel and travel, it’s easily 800 or 1,000 Euro. And that hindered some people from coming.
Regarding the topics of the convention, we covered that same issue - we had a panel discussion about the paper prices and what people could do to alleviate that problem. We talked about how the prices could be passed on to the customers, such as with a package price that includes everything. And that is a constant theme for our members. In Wurzburg, we asked the paper manufacturers the join the panel to talk about prices, but they all said no. They were afraid of the anger of the members. Another issue is supply itself – it takes longer for our members to get the paper they order.
A: We’ve heard manufacturers are making less paper for reprographics.
Z: Yes, they’re making more for packaging, such as for Amazon. The margins for the paper manufacturers to make cardboard are greater than they are for printing paper. And we’ve heard some paper manufacturers in Finland completely shut down.
This means that our members need to seek new lines of business. Advertising graphics, for example. In Wurzburg we had two seminars about creating printed images that can work outside. We discussed how our members need to print the sign, deliver it, and install it. Offering all these services is a survival strategy.
A: If your members are interested, I’ll send you a link to a webinar we recently did on the graphics business. The panelists offered all sorts of insider tips.
Z: Thank you, yes. In Wurzburg, a member spoke about scanning, and offered his secrets. He reported how he had learned the business, and what mistakes he made. It’s not all self-evident, so it was very valuable that he shared that information. But a lot of our members are still anxious about starting new service lines.
A: We’ve found that our members who serve their existing AEC customers with the new services, such as graphics, have more success, because they already have the relationships with them.
Z: Yes, here, too. For example, with small-format scanning, the competition is too great. But for large-format, because our members already have relationships with those customers, they succeed. They’ve spent decades building those relationships, and they’re valuable.
A: Do you think associations play the same role as 10-20 years ago?
Z: I think what has changed, compared to 10-15 years ago, is that information exchange among our members is more important than ever. The conversations members have among themselves about their experiences, their problems, and how they overcome them. I think 10-15 years ago attendees to our conferences were happy to listen to the speakers and the company leaders giving presentations, but today it’s more important for them to talk among themselves and exchange information. The highlight of our events for every attendee in the past few years has been the evening receptions and the coffee breaks, where the members can talk with their colleagues.
And so, maybe a task for the association is to decide which platform to use to facilitate networking, even if it’s digital. On the other hand, at least once a year we need to have an in-person event. Based on our experience in Wurzburg, we’re thinking that maybe we need some smaller, regional events – with just one overnight stay – in which networking is encouraged.
A: How is reprographics going in Germany overall?
Z: It’s declining. The quantity of CAD plots is constantly declining, and that has hit a lot of our members hard. Many of them would like stay in the CAD plotting business, and don’t have the energy or interest to expand their list of services. They don’t want to learn the new technology. We had a seminar in Wurzburg over Design/Build 4.0, where the builders can digitize the whole job site and use pads or big screens to see everything. There was discussion about our members making these screens available, and doing the internet connections, and plan rooms, and that means some of our members would have to adjust what they’re doing and orient themselves to a new business.
Another direction for many of our members is scanning plans. In some cases, they printed these plans 12 or 15 years ago, and now they’re scanning them for the building owner or facility manager.
A: Some of our members keep those scans and hold them in a database for the customers, and make money each month or each year to maintain that.
Z: Yes, it’s the same here, they keep the documents in a planroom. The scans are easily accessible to the customer. What this means is that there’s been a big change in the employees of our members – they need much more IT knowledge. Earlier, an employee needed to know how to scan drawings or change paper rolls. Now they need many more qualifications. But it’s hard to find these people, because everyone wants them.
Not everyone will survive all these changes, which will also reduce our overall member count. We have now 140 or 150 members.
A: How many members did you have earlier?
Z: I can remember in early 2000s it was almost 350. Many of our members are small shops with two or three employees, and the owner wants to retire and can’t find anyone to take over the firm. The kids don’t want the parents’ firm. So they simply close the doors. And the exploding inflation in electricity and gas makes survival harder.
A: In the United States, some of our members are acquiring other repro firms. Is that happening in Germany?
Z: There are some chains here, like Staples, and in the past they tried to expand their footprint. But that has really quieted down, because the chain structure doesn’t work as well in Germany.
A: Why?
Z: I don’t know, it’s a question of mentality. It is understood that the independent shops offer better quality for their customers. There are still some chains in Germany, like Reprotechnik and ReproPlan, but they are not buying our members.
A: How many locations do these chains have?
Z: 15-20, though Reprotechnik has closed a few recently.
A: Is Reprotechnik a motio member?
Z: No. In motio there are no chains. It’s not allowed. A member can only have a few locations. That keeps the group structure with only smaller, owner-operated firms, without a big chain there that could suddenly overtake things.
A: In the US we have a big chain, ARC. Sometimes people ask me if someone from ARC is going to be at a particular event, because if so, they’re not comfortable attending and sharing info.
Z: In Germany, Staples a few months ago declared insolvency, and we told our members to put signs up in Staples saying they could provide the large-format services so that those customers would go to our members’ shops. And some Staples employees visited some of our members and asked if they could work there.
That’s another topic – our members need more employees, even untrained ones, and they’re almost nonexistent.
A: The same situation exists in the United States, workers are hard to find. Maybe we need more immigration to bring in more young workers.
Z: It’s the same here, we have now a lot of Ukrainians, and they are eager to learn and intelligent and adaptable. It’s astounding that many of them speak English and German.
A: Can they legally work there?
Z: Yes, they have permission to work here.
A: Are there still reprographics organizations in other European countries?
Z: Yes, in Austria and Switzerland. In the early ‘90s, we had events together on the Bodensee. And after that the leaders still went to each other’s meetings, but not many of the members. In France there is still a reprographics association, too, but it’s together with another group that is for office supplies. And the same for the group in Spain.
A: Thank you for your time.
Z: You’re welcome, let’s keep in touch.